Cooe

And with the required stand it's nearly as tall as a Series X while being VASTLY larger in nearly every other dimension... This design is just all kinds of epic fail, Sony... For a company usually so damn good at product design, what the freaking hell is happening over there??? O_o

Great! The way things are going this will quickly reach the point where I won't need to buy Sony's GOD AWFUL hardware anymore. We all know they are CRAP at hardware design (With PS4 being the only console that wasn't a complete clusterf***, after CELL/split RAM [PS3], Emotion Engine [PS2], & indemic affine texture warping [PS1]), but we buy their machines to play the exclusive titles. The sooner Sony realizes hardware sales don't make money (often the opposite in fact), game sales do, and starts putting their 1st party output on PC day 1, the sooner things will be better for EVERYONE. (Sony will make more $, more people will play their games, AND their games will look & run MUCH better on non-crap hardware).

@ChipBoundary Source or GTFO. There are no benchmarks (just Googled it again). You are a lying sack of crap. I CAN show you countless benchmarks showing how additional CU's on an AMD GPU increases game performance/visuals without any developer input though.

And I can pull out literally countless games that run/look better on One X than PS4 Pro. Or PS4 vs OG Xbox One. You reeeeeally want to go there? Pretending hardware is irrelevant is just like everything else you've said; 100% full of Grade A Organic Crap.

@ChipBoundary You're proving my point, not disproving it! xD Exactly! CD Projekt RED literally had to DELAY their game to optimize it better for the base Xbox One (the slower console of its generation) to be able to sell it to consumers.... The PS5 is the slower console this generation. You get it yet? facepalm This is easy to understand. The Xbox One runs games worse than the PS4. The PS4 Pro runs games worse than the Xbox One X. And in general, the PS5 will run games worse than Series X. (Outside potentially 1st party titles, hence why it could be a 360/PS3 type situation).

And neither company has said ANYTHING about benchmarks! Stop pulling crap out of your butt! All they've said is both will support Unreal Engine 5! You don't have sources because they came from your anus, lol.

@ChipBoundary "These games will have the exact same resolution, frame rate, and graphics quality, across the board on both consoles. Both companies have already identified that."
Source or GTFO. That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Look at the Xbox One X & PS4 Pro. According to you they should run games exactly the same... Same goes for Xbox One & PS4... Except they don't. -_-

You're freaking delusional if you think dynamic resolution scalers for example won't automatically take advantage of the Series X's much wider GPU. Sure you might get faster load times on the PS5, but that's a far cry from the actual potential of that SSD, which has to be coded for from the ground up to take proper advantage of. So only 1st party titles. (Which again, I expect to be AMAZING). Hence why it's pretty much CELL 2.0

@ChipBoundary Sure... If you're willing to sacrifice framerate and resolution.... What the hell is your point here? If you're willing to drop the resolution & framerate as far as possible to run the game maxed out, what do we need new consoles for? The current consoles could run the next-gen games at like 480p/10fps, and according to you, that's juuuust the same thing as 4K/60fps.... l'm sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to an imbecile.

Developers have to choose a balance between asset & "setting" quality (assets are almost always higher quality on PC, & thus better quality assets will still exist as they always have [assets in game development are made super high res & and then downscaled to fit the hardware, not the other way around]), resolution, and framerate. And additional GPU horsepower raises those ceilings without ANY additional developer work. The game just runs & looks better automatically. Additional I/O performance otoh requires ground up optimization work to really use to its full potential.

Again, this is why slapping an SSD in your PS4 does next to nothing, but stepping up to a PS4 Pro does a freaking crap load. If you can't understand this, you're hopeless.

I'm not saying the PS5's SSD isn't freaking incredible, and that Sony's 1st party studios won't do some UNBELIEVABLE things with it, but it's most likely just not going to have much (if any) real impact on 3rd party game performance. Games need to be designed with the PS5 SSD as the baseline to take proper advantage of it, & that'll only be 1st party titles (which again, should be AMAZING!). Series X otoh will likely run 3rd party titles at higher resolutions/framerates &/or with higher quality assets closer to the PC versions (all developer depending), but the ceiling for "crazy, next-gen *****" that can be accomplished by their 1st party developers outside of raw graphical fidelity prolly won't be as high thanks to the slower SSD.

@shyhh This isn't entirely true anymore. That's the entire point of this technology, and what makes it such a game changer for the next-gen consoles. It all desends from AMD's work on the Radeon SSG ("Solid State Graphics", a GPU with on-board 2TB NVMe SSD's that were directly addressable as additional VRAM), and requires AMD's HBCC ("High Bandwidth Cache Controller") to function. To the developer, the SSD cache is seen as directly addressable RAM, no different than the GDDR/HBM also in the system/card. The HBCC dynamically adjusts data to the storage its best suited for on the fly & in real-time, AND enables direct data manipulation on the SSD WITHOUT needing to move the data to local memory first for less bandwidth dependant tasks.

Basically, it's a total game changer, and totally changes the system I/O & memory pipeline in a fundamental way (like Tim Sweeney has been saying, though ofc w/ the Sony marketing deal he's only been talking about PS5 so far. But both consoles are making this leap).

The fact that both the next-gen consoles have GPU's + SSD's with this functionality built in from the ground up is THE big storage leap forward. Sony's additional bandwidth on top of that is just some extra icing (a seriously hefty helping, don't get me wrong), but not really the game changing feature in & of itself.

@ChipBoundary That has little to do with the raw speed of the SSD itself (beyond a certain point), and everything to do with extending the addressable memory space of the console into a dedicated portion of the SSD, which both the PS5 & Xbox Series X are doing. (Aka, on both machines it'll appear to devs that they have 116GB of free RAM; assuming Sony matches MS' 100GB cache size). They are both built from the ground up with super custom I/O systems made for just in time asset streaming, with MS' superior BCPack texture compression tech (about 30% better than Sony's Kraken), helping to significantly reduce the impact of the PS5's additional raw bandwidth.

And lol, extra GPU performance is ALWAYS useful. Learn how a game engine works, and things like dynamic resolution scaling. Modern game engines will use all the GPU performance you have on tap without any additional developer work. Add more GPU power, performance goes up without having to do anything (assuming you aren't CPU bottlenecked, which with 8x Zen 2 cores isn't going to happen with anything less than a 2080 Ti tier GPU at absolute minimum). Arguing different tells me that you've never really looked into how modern game engines work. Adding additional SSD speed otoh won't do much without significant changes to the code. (This is why putting an SSD in a PS4 barely does anything).

Sony's SSD is freaking cool as all hell, but the only devs/games that'll really do anything special with it will be big budget 1st party exclusives late in the generation... Or EXACTLY like CELL. The Series X's beefier GPU will be taken full advantage off otoh by literally every next-gen game that comes to market. (GPU utilization is essentially ALWAYS 100% in a gaming workload).

Don't get me wrong though, I expect said 1st party titles to do some freaking unbelievable things... But just like with the 360/PS3 gen, I wholly expect MS to have the performance advantage everywhere else.

Except they need to actually prove it'll make any real world difference in games vs a more "standard speed" NVMe SSD... That Epic Unreal Engine 5 demo sure didn't do the trick after Epic China explicitly revealed it'd run even better (40fps vs 30fps) on a gaming laptop w/ a RTX 2080 Max-Q (so desktop 2070 level) & standard PCIe 3.0 NVMe SSD. (Aka, it needs a fast SSD to function, but Sony's speed demon was completely irrelevant in adding even more performance. And that it would have run faster/at a higher res on Series X bc more GPU grunt). Much to Tin Sweeney's shagrin (that Epic China employee on that live stream probably got fired so fast it'd make your head spin, rofl).

Sony's SSD could really become CELL 2.0 if developers have to do a ton of explicit optimization work to really accomplish anything that wouldn't be possible on other platforms. This is unlike additional raw CPU & GPU horsepower, which game engines will gladly use 100% of without ANY additional dev work (games will just run at higher resolutions/settings & what not).

I'd love to be proven wrong on this one, but I have seen NOTHING to suggest that Sony's banaynay's SSD will have any major benefits outside mid-late gen big budget 1st party exclusives. Your Naughty Dog & SCEA Santa Monica games and whatnot. Aka, the same exact thing that happened with CELL... (Not that I don't think ND or SM won't be able to do some really insane stuff with said SSD, just like they did with CELL).

Lol you can just feel the immense rage Sammy has against potentially losing yet another exclusive to another (and arguably far superior) platform, radiating from every letter in this entire post. Bloodborne on PC would be freaking awesome, and a win-win for everyone (software sales makes money, not consoles). The only people this should upset if it ever becomes true are overly sensitive Sony fanboys. A game being made available on another platform & to a wider audience shouldn't suddenly make you all insecure & angry about your original purchase. It should be celebrated.

This is one area where Sony just doesn't seem to get it, where Microsoft very much does. Console sales have terrible margins (negative even early in a gen), the money is made on the software, and largely ignoring the entire PC market does them absolutely no favors in that area AT ALL. It's not like they'd make much more money if a PC gamer bought a PS4 to play a given game then if they'd just gotten it on PC had it been available (bc console margins suck donkey balls), but FAR less PC gamers are willing to buy a whole nother console just to play one, or even a few exclusive titles. Aka, they make less money by ignoring the PC market then by embracing it like MS has (potentially a LOT less even).

The event was fine (showcasing a bunch of mostly smaller AA titles that would normally never get this kind of attention. Bright Memory Infinite is being made by a single guy for heaven's sake), it was just RIDICULOUSLY mismarketed. If they had advertised it as a next-gen indie game showcase with a few bonus AAA cinematic trailers instead of being a "gameplay reveal" it would have been pretty great tbh. (AA games just don't get enough attention). But by getting everyone's expectations all out of wack, they shot themselves in the foot. That said, if you're expecting PS5 launch titles to look fundamentally beyond what is currently possible on current gen hardware, you should get your expectations in check ASAP and go look at some PS4 launch titles again (which were basically just shinier PS3 games).

Does this dude SERIOUSLY not remember the last generation transition? It was EXACTLY the same. No PS4/Xbox One launch period titles, next gen exclusive or not, were fundamentally beyond at a basic design level, what was technically feasible on the existing machines. That's just how these things are these days. It'll take a good year, at least, for devs to really start showing us things that simply wouldn't have been possible before. Expecting otherwise in the face of historical precedent is a little ridiculous. Game development simply needs to catch up to the new hardware, and early next gen titles are always essentially just shinier versions of what's currently possible. People need to get their expectations in check, FAST!

This site's become straight up delusional it seems. Sad day.

And this is exactly what happens when you have to seriously jack up clock-speeds upon realizing your main competitor brought significantly more raw silicon to the fight. This unique cooling system is super cool, don't get me wrong, but is going to be uncommonly expensive to fabricate (significantly so). More and more the PS5 and Series X having the same launch price makes more & more sense (likely around $500).

This is the kind of "ground up optimization" you are most likely to see for Sony's SSD. Most developers will NEVER push that thing to its limits, because it instantly makes ports to other consoles/PC impossible, which is a instant financial "no go" in today's $100's of millions AAA game development costs. Expect next gen games to be designed around having an SSD as standard (which tbh, is the real leap forward; not the perf jump from Sony's SSD vs current one's), but that's it. Outside of 1st Party titles, it would be like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. This is in direct contrast to the Series X's additional GPU resources & CPU clock-speed, which will automatically be used by any/all Series X games to increase performance without any real developer work required.

The Series X is 12.16 TFLOPs... If you're gonna use decimal points, at least be consistent -_- .

Xbox Series X has 12.16 TFLOPs NOT a flat 12. If you're going to use the decimal places, use it for all machines... -_-

And with both machines used RDNA 2, the TFLOP figures are mostly directly comparable in terms of judging general GPU performance. Xbox has a GPU power advantage this generation, that's just a cold, hard fact. Just like the PS5 having a better SSD.

Because he definitely doesn't have a vested interest in the PS5's success or anything... rolls eyes

@beavis64
Sony lost over 5 billion dollars on the PS3, which makes it the biggest financial failure in game console history (use Google if you have doubts). How else do you describe that but a loss??? The PS3 was a constant cash drain on Sony for the entire time it was on the market, and I dunno if you were unaware of Sony's general financial state at that time.... but it was bad.... REALLY bad. The PS4 & their camera sensors division literally saved Sony as a company from the almost game-over that was the PS3 disaster.

@beavis64
That's only because of Japan sales, where the 360 essentially didn't sell at all. In the western world, the 360 DID smash the PS3. And it wasn't even close (ESPECIALLY during the first half of the gen). In America for example, the 360 outsold the PS3 by literal multiples. And even with the slightly higher final sales numbers due to complete ownership of the East Asian market, the PS3 still almost completely bankrupted Sony.